Radio Interview (July 31, 2024)

Host 00:00
We now say good morning to Steven Klitzner. He’s the law office of Steven Klitzner, tax attorney floridataxsolvers.com online. Good morning to you, Steven.

Steven 00:08
Good morning, Michael.

Host 00:09
Yes. So thanks so much for being here and good to talk to you once again. So we’ve gotten a lot of very helpful information from you over the past number of months about the IRS. And we’ve talked about how some people just tend to get behind or don’t file their taxes, don’t pay their taxes, whatever it may be. But after a period of time, the IRS will find those individuals. How can we expect that the IRS will reach out and make their presence known?

Steven 00:37
The first contact is going to be by letter. That means no email.

Steven 00:44
If you get an email from the IRS, it’s a scam. It’s a spam. Ignore it. The IRS does not send you emails. You know, I don’t know 100 percent about everything, but I know one thing. The IRS doesn’t send emails.

Steven 01:01
It is not from them. The second thing is they don’t make contact first contact by telephone. If you get a call and the person says they’re from some made up thing, it’s not the IRS. That’s not how they make first contact.

Steven 01:20
So you don’t have to worry about that. And as of last year, first contact is not made by coming to your house or coming to your office. Not that people scam and I’ve never heard of anyone impersonating the IRS going to someone’s house or office.

Steven 01:40
But that’s not how they do it. It’s going to be by letter. So they actually did used to go and visit in person as first contact? Yeah. So what happened was last year they decided for the safety of their revenue officers.

Steven 01:56
They don’t want to do that anymore. There were instances, and I can think of one specifically up in Broward County, where revenue officer comes to the door, a guy comes out with a shotgun. And then when the police came, the guy admitted the shotgun was loaded, so he went to jail even longer.

Steven 02:17
So for the safety of their people, they don’t want to go out there. And let me tell you, the revenue officers aren’t happy about that. They like showing up, surprising people, watching heart attacks happen. But they don’t do that anymore. It’s going to be by letter.

Host 02:33
Yeah, I would imagine they wouldn’t receive a warm reception at the front door when they identified themselves for the first time. But as you said, if someone contacts you by phone or contacts you initially by email, it is almost certainly a scam.

Host 02:48
And we’ve heard it before, they’re not going to demand that you send them money or gift cards or something like that. That certainly tips you off that it is not for real.

Steven 02:57
Yeah, the IRS does not accept iTunes gift cards even though they try and you know what happened was in the past a guy would be running a business and he would think or she would think everything was being taken care of with the IRS and all of a sudden they’d walk into their office and their bookkeeper’s there and they’d say,

Steven 03:21
the bookkeeper’s like, this is the guy from the IRS, oh by the way, I haven’t been paying payroll taxes. So it came as a surprise to some business owners in the past, but now it’s going to be by mail and there’s three things they’re going to contact you on.

Steven 03:37
Number one, you owe money. Number two, you haven’t filed your returns. Or number three, you’re being audited. So those are the three reasons they’re going to contact you and they’re going to write a letter to your last own address.

Steven 03:52
So if you’ve moved since you last filed a return or you moved since you filed a return six years ago, that’s the old addresses where they’re going to be contacting you initially and you’re going to lose a lot of your rights if the IRS doesn’t know where you are.

Steven 04:08
You want them to know where you are because they’re going to catch up to you sooner or later. So the sooner you get letters, the better it is for you.

Host 04:16
Yes. Law Office of Steven Klitzner, PA, he’s tax attorney, floridataxsolvers.com. For a consultation, 305-682-1118, again 305-682-1118. So those letters, well, first off, as you said, you need to make sure that the IRS can find you. You can’t really hide or evade them or avoid them in any way. But those letters, I was just going to say, Steven, the letters though, they kind of escalate as far as their intensity, et cetera. Is that right?

Steven 04:48
Oh, sure. The first letter, and usually your first letters is going to be from an 800 number.

Steven 04:54
And they start out very friendly. They start out with, here’s your bill, please pay us. Now, there’s two letters the IRS has started sending out from the 800 number people. That’s automated collections. One is a notice of intent to levy, which is dangerous. It’s not the final notice, but it’s dangerous. And the other is a new letter they developed. It’s the friendliest letter they ever sent. They actually, the IRS found out about QR codes, so they’re so happy to throw them on letters.

Steven 05:24
And that’s a way to try to make a deal using the QR code and going online and doing that. That’s their new friendly letter that they’re sending out. So those two letters mean one important thing. You’re on their radar, so you have to take some action.

Steven 05:43
Now, if there’s a revenue officer, now things have heated up. That’s going to be a letter from somebody locally. first contact to be a letter setting up an appointment for you to meet with them that appointments not etched in stone you know they’re you just created a unilateral appointment they don’t know whether you’re available or not but that’s what they do to get things rolling you should as a general rule not talk to the irs yourself because as they say everything you say can and will be used against you

Host 06:15
very important point again steven klitzner law office of steven klitzner tax attorney available online floridataxsolvers.com local phone number 305-682-1118 practicing taxes and tax law for many years in south Florida and the Florida keys as well so as you said Steven don’t try to represent yourself in front of the IRS on the phone or in person more importantly but you have uh…

Host 06:44
you mentioned the irs used to show up at their door and uh… maybe would even take a little pleasure in uh… seeing the reaction of the potential taxpayer but uh… have you found you deal with the irs on a very regular basis are they truly vindictive or are they uh… nice people or how would you characterize the IRS

Steven 07:04
well i i think most of the people well all of them are just doing their job yes some of them may tend to get pretty close or cross the line a little bit but most of them are friendly because they have a lot of power there’s no need for them to threaten or anything like that they’re not really on your side they’re on their side they’re not going to tell you all your rights you know a revenue officer will send out a final notice of intent to levy if you don’t request the hearing within thirty days they could levy so if you’re dealing with the revenue officer the office and don’t worry about that letter don’t worry we’re gonna work together on this but that is not in your best interest yeah

Host 07:49
well uh… most Taxpayers are quite ignorant as to what their rights are, and they can really find themselves in a pretty disadvantaged situation with the IRS. However, you’ve been dealing with the IRS directly for many, many years. You really kind of know their playbook, what they can and can’t do. And you representing the taxpayer is certainly a much better way to go.

Steven 08:10
Yeah, they have to follow the Internal Revenue Manual, and it’s my job to make sure they follow it.

Steven 08:17
And sometimes they take a little leeway there. You know, you mentioned, are they vindictive, and the answer is generally no. But when you say to the IRS, look, I’m a good guy, I’ve always done this, I’ve always done that, I haven’t been hiding from you, they don’t really care.

Steven 08:33
That’s not what they’re thinking. They’re thinking you’re not paying your taxes, we’ve got to find a way to collect. But as a general rule, when you cooperate, the IRS looks at it as, you know, let’s just get this thing resolved.

Steven 08:51
What gets them mad is when you don’t respond, you don’t cooperate, you miss deadlines without asking for an extension, or you lie to them, or you just basically don’t do what they’re asking you to do.

Steven 09:06
Now, I wouldn’t call it vindictive, but they’re going to take action. Action means your bank account could be frozen, your wages could be taken, and they’re going to do what they need to do to get you to cooperate.

Host 09:21
Yes, Steven Klitzner, law office of Steven Klitzner with us, tax attorney at floridataxsolvers.com. So Steven, I’m going to divert just a little bit. We talked last time about how you actually argued before the IRS, or maybe it was just outside, or not the IRS, the Supreme Court, and maybe it was just outside the Supreme Court.

Host 09:40
But supposedly, the Supreme Court, as a judicial body, follows the mantra that you’re innocent until proven guilty. However, it kind of sounds like the IRS considers you guilty until you’re proven innocent. Is that a good characterization?

Steven 09:56
Well, yes. You know, in an audit case, for instance, if the IRS had the burden of proof, they could never prove their case. So they shift the burden to the taxpayers. So if the IRS said, you made this much more money, or you didn’t have these expenses, it’s up to the taxpayer to prove them wrong. And it can be a very difficult burden to prove something, especially sometimes when we have to prove a negative.

Steven 10:25
The IRS says, we made money. We say, no, we didn’t. They say, prove it. So how can I prove it? I didn’t make the money. So it can be very difficult. You do have rights, but the burden is on you. And especially in an audit case, you have to prove your case, which when we get a tax court on an audit case, as the petitioner, the burden of proof is on us.

Host 10:51
Wow. So in an audit, most people really don’t know what to expect or what they’re looking for or how to even defend themselves. But even if it’s not at the level of an audit, if you fall behind in taxes or whatever, really the taxpayer doesn’t know what to expect and what the IRS really is looking for. And that’s where certainly your expertise comes in.

Steven 11:14
Yes. Yeah. And that said, my job is to protect the taxpayer rights. My job is not to fight with the IRS, not to turn it into a personal battle or, as you mentioned, the word vindictive battle. That’s not the purpose. The purpose is how can we make a deal that my client can live with that the IRS will agree to? And that’s the bottom line to every case. What can we do not to set my client up for failure? that the IRS will go along with. So I have to prove to the IRS that, you know, every time we deal with them, we prove to the IRS that what deal we’re making is good for the IRS. If I can convince them this is what you should take, it’s in your, the IRS’s best interest, then I can get them to make a deal.

Host 12:06
Yeah. Steven Klitzner, the law office of Steven Klitzner, tax attorney, floridataxsolvers.com Call for your consultation, 305-682-1118. And Steven, intent, does that matter as far as the IRS goes? For instance, if you’re a business owner, your bookkeeper just wasn’t paying the payroll taxes as you said. It wasn’t really the intent of the business owner to evade the IRS or not pay taxes. But in general, they don’t care.

Host 12:35
You just owe the money. Intent doesn’t really factor in, does it?

Steven 12:38
Well, intent helps when it comes to trying to get rid of penalty. But for the most part, you know, you can’t, you also can’t have willful blindness.

Steven 12:49
You know, it’s like the Three Stooges, when Larry said, I can’t see, I can’t see, and Mo said, what’s the matter? And he says, I got my eyes closed. And then he pokes them in the eyes and you really can’t see.

Steven 12:59
You can’t just have your eyes closed to everything. But if you can show you acted reasonably and in good faith, at least from a penalty standpoint, we can save a lot of money with that.

Host 13:13
Well, speaking of saving money, your fees certainly are worth it in the long run.

Host 13:19
I mean, without paying you and you, you charge, you don’t charge by the hour. We’ve talked about that before as well.

Steven 13:25
Great. Yeah. The consultation is free and the fee is a flat fee. The fee, once we know what we’re going to do, covers everything until the end of the case.

Steven 13:38
I always tell people, all right, I’m going to do this. If it doesn’t work, I’ll appeal. If that doesn’t work, I’m going to do this. And maybe later down the road, we can go back to the first thing. I don’t like people to think that every time I call them, they’re going to get a bill for my services.

Steven 13:53
They have to know we’re in it together, and it’s in my best interest to resolve their case, not to let it go forever and ever.

Host 14:02
That’s a very important point. Steven Klitzner talking with us. He’s a tax attorney with the law office of Steven Klitzner PA, the floridataxsolvers.com.

Host 14:10
Many, many years of representing taxpayers before the IRS, 305-682-1118. And we’ve used the word you in many, many cases when we’re talking about you and your firm working with the taxpayer. Let’s draw the contrast between you and your expertise versus maybe some of those 800 numbers that people hear about that say they’re going to solve all your tax problems right away and conclusively, etc. You’re not dealing with an individual such as yourself in that case.

Steven 14:44
Right. Yeah, you’re dealing with some unknown company. Sometimes they have a website, sometimes they don’t, but you never know who’s running the company.

Steven 14:52
It’s usually not an attorney or a CPA, it’s just a business person. And you’re dealing with, you know, if you’re dealing with a company 2000 miles away, and the IRS contacts you at nine in the morning, or you got levied at nine in the morning, they’re not even open yet.

Steven 15:11
You gotta wait a few hours to get a hold of that. And I can tell you from experience and talking with the IRS, when they see those companies, they know that they’re gonna have to handle it different because they’re not gonna get any cooperation, and they’re going to have to be more aggressive in order to get that company to act. They just don’t do the work. And if you’re dealing with someone far away, the IRS really has no respect for them.

Host 15:43
No, they don’t have a relationship with the revenue officers locally like you do, and like you’ve cultivated over many years.

Host 15:51
Again, Steven Klitzner, tax attorney, floridataxsolvers.com, South Florida and the Florida Keys at 305-682-1118. And again, even though you did practice before the Supreme Court, you specialize specifically in tax problems, IRS problems, and that’s where you’ve really honed your skills.

Host 16:12
So we encourage anyone who has any kind of an experience that they’re going through with the IRS to contact Steven Klitzner, the floridataxsolvers.com. So Steven, I think we’ve covered a few very helpful points here this morning.

Host 16:27
Is there anything else though you’d like to highlight?

Steven 16:29
No, I think that’s it. I don’t mind when people call to ask a question. If they, and certain things I can’t help people. Where’s my refund? I can’t do anything really to speed that up.

Steven 16:44
If you owe just a couple of thousand dollars, you can- you just start paying it, nothing’s going to happen in the meantime. But when you have a serious problem, or when you’re really worried that you don’t know what you owe or what years you filed, then that’s where I come in to get answers and start working something out so that you don’t get that surprise frozen bank account or frozen wages.

Host 17:11
And time is of the essence. We started this segment by talking about how the IRS will contact you legitimately, and it’ll start with a letter. Don’t ignore those letters. Your rights are being diminished as you ignore those letters.

Host 17:24
So contacting Steven Klitzner, getting competent expertise in your corner is certainly the best defense. It’s law office of Steven Klitzner, attorney, floridataxsolvers.com. Steven, thank you so much for being here this morning.

Host 17:38
We certainly always appreciate your very helpful advice and expertise. You have a fabulous day.

Steven 17:45
You too. Thanks again, Michael.

Host 17:47
Yes, sir. Thank you. Take care. Again, the law office of Steven Klitzner, PA, online, floridataxsolvers.com, local number at 305-682-1118, to contact Steven office directly.

Host 17:59
Good morning to you.